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Sleep Attacks And Micro-Sleep


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#21 Della The Red

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Posted 24 February 2015 - 04:58 PM

I have been having almost nightly nightmares which turn into HH and SP for past couple of weeks. I have tried just going to the loo then back to bed but it's like I simply 'paused' the nightmare and go straight back to it. Then a few nights ago, I got up and went for a walk around the garden and had a smoke. Upon going back to bed, managed to fall asleep - and not into the nightmare again!

 

yes I would not recommend nico to anyone who isn't already addicted, however, am so grateful to find something to shake off the HH and allow me to sleep again.

 

thanks



#22 NetiNeti

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Posted 24 March 2015 - 07:56 PM

Also, ADHD was mentioned here. ADHD (or ADD) is often a down-chain effect --- it is secondary to most other primary disorders. If you have narcolepsy; ADHD, ADD, EDS, Dysthymia, or Depression are likely "side effects" of the primary diagnosis of Narcolepsy. If you can regulate your narcolepsy and modulate your sleep and awake cycles, you will notice that some of the other secondary effects wear off over time. If they don't, they might have other causes. But I would definitely try to deal with the primary diagnosis first. 



#23 purpley

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Posted 25 March 2015 - 12:23 PM

Also, ADHD was mentioned here. ADHD (or ADD) is often a down-chain effect --- it is secondary to most other primary disorders. If you have narcolepsy; ADHD, ADD, EDS, Dysthymia, or Depression are likely "side effects" of the primary diagnosis of Narcolepsy. If you can regulate your narcolepsy and modulate your sleep and awake cycles, you will notice that some of the other secondary effects wear off over time. If they don't, they might have other causes. But I would definitely try to deal with the primary diagnosis first.


Yes and no. The actual symptoms of ADHD/ADD overlap so much with chronic sleep deprivation that I think it's essentially impossible to diagnose those with any reliability in someone who has narcolepsy, treated or not.

On the other hand, I don't think I'd say that true depression in the formal psychiatric sense is "likely" a side effect of narcolepsy. Major depressive disorder can be pretty accurately diagnosed in someone with narcolepsy, as long as the doctor knows that narcolepsy is present. So if you have a true depressive disorder according to an expert who also knows you have narcolepsy, you'll probably still need treatment for depression even after the narcolepsy is treated. I would treat both clinical depression and narcolepsy simultaneously in someone who has both. If the narcolepsy symptoms and mood symptoms both improve, then you can try backing off the depression treatment and seeing if the depression's gone.

So anyone who has true depression should go ahead and get treatment, don't wait for the narcolepsy to be controlled before getting help.

#24 NetiNeti

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Posted 26 March 2015 - 07:41 AM

Yes and no. The actual symptoms of ADHD/ADD overlap so much with chronic sleep deprivation that I think it's essentially impossible to diagnose those with any reliability in someone who has narcolepsy, treated or not.

On the other hand, I don't think I'd say that true depression in the formal psychiatric sense is "likely" a side effect of narcolepsy. Major depressive disorder can be pretty accurately diagnosed in someone with narcolepsy, as long as the doctor knows that narcolepsy is present. So if you have a true depressive disorder according to an expert who also knows you have narcolepsy, you'll probably still need treatment for depression even after the narcolepsy is treated. I would treat both clinical depression and narcolepsy simultaneously in someone who has both. If the narcolepsy symptoms and mood symptoms both improve, then you can try backing off the depression treatment and seeing if the depression's gone.

So anyone who has true depression should go ahead and get treatment, don't wait for the narcolepsy to be controlled before getting help.

ADHD/ADD: I agree. This happens in people with other diagnosis too; like autism. I see them dual-diagnosed all of the time. 

Yea, I would say this is the safer approach to treating depression in people with narcolepsy. I am a clinician; sleep is a huge contributing factor to host of mental health disorders. Treating both at the same time is safe, but may not be needed if your mood is more dysthymic and not major unipolar depression. It really depends on the case; but I would always argue for minimal and graduated interventions. 



#25 purpley

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Posted 26 March 2015 - 08:11 AM

ADHD/ADD: I agree. This happens in people with other diagnosis too; like autism. I see them dual-diagnosed all of the time. 

Yea, I would say this is the safer approach to treating depression in people with narcolepsy. I am a clinician; sleep is a huge contributing factor to host of mental health disorders. Treating both at the same time is safe, but may not be needed if your mood is more dysthymic and not major unipolar depression. It really depends on the case; but I would always argue for minimal and graduated interventions. 

 

Yeah, we're two clinicians "locked in violent agreement," as my dad would say.  I just wanted to emphasize the point that having both depression and narcolepsy as comorbid conditions which are not connected (other than by the psychological stress caused by having a chronic medical illness) is definitely possible.

 

It's unfortunately way too common (and I'm probably preaching to the choir with you, but making the point for other folks) for people with undiagnosed N to be told they have clinical depression which they don't have, because their primary care docs tell them "nothing's wrong" and then the sleepiness gets mistaken for depression.  Or the person gets treated for "insomnia" with benzodiazepines which only exacerbate the problem.  So as a result -- and of course, it's understandable -- there's a lot of antipsychiatry sentiment that comes up in the N community.  So people who have true major depression or bipolar disorder sometimes have their symptoms minimized, or are told to stop taking their medications, or feel guilty if they can't, because they're told they don't really have a psychiatric condition.

 

So in summary to all readers -- if you have significant depression and haven't seen a mental health provider yet, don't wait to get help, because you can start psychotherapy and/or meds now and get relief, and you can always stop treatment once the N's under control if you want to.  If it's mild depression and you'd rather wait, that's fine too, particularly because all stimulants are mild antidepressants anyway.  And any of you out there already diagnosed with major depression or bipolar disorder on meds, it's OK to stay on your treatment even with N, and don't let anyone tell you any differently.



#26 Bobbie

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Posted 28 March 2015 - 06:49 PM

Most of the time, there is no warning for my sleep attacks. I only know after I wake up. There are times when I do start to get a little sleepy like when you have to sit in the doctor's ofice waiting for an appointment. I'll just get up and walk around. Sometimes when shopping, I'll have an attack just long enough for me to kind of jerk & wake up before I start to fall. Micro sleep for me really blows me away because I can have complete dreams (meaning the time span for whatever I dream covers hours of whatever they are about) in just seconds. And then there are the dreams that I have that are the most fun because I am actually dreaming coinciding with a program on TV and sort of applying my own take on what is happening and adjusting the characters. I tend to become verbally active, loudly, and it wakes up my husband. He then tries to wake me up and I get mad because I am having such a good time. These kind of dreams generally begin by having cataplexy so bad (most of the time from laughing) that I fall into a dream state but still aware of what is happening on the TV. Crazy, huh? Wonder if anyone else ever does that? When my children were small and they were watching TV, I would take a nap with them and I could hear eveything they said even though I was asleep. I've had all sorts of weird experiences connected to Narcolepsy/Cataplexy in my life from 13yrs to 72yrs. Getting past the Cataplexy attacks where I would stop breathing was the most important. Knowing that I would always manage to catch my breath and believing it made the difference. N/C is not fatal. You just have to make the best of it and not allow it to hold you back from anything you want to do! Yes, it will scare off people who get spooked easily but actually that's a good thing.

#27 sandrad

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Posted 30 March 2015 - 04:33 PM

Question: can emotions trigger sleep attacks in a similar way that they can trigger cataplexy? I have noticed my sleep attacks sometimes being triggered by emotions such as romantic feelings, nostalgia, excitement, or embarrassment. Not laughter or surprise though.

I never thought it did but my mother has recently had a severe stroke and she had narcolepsy with severe cataplexy her whole life, now when I go see her and she has a strong emotion come on (usually sadness) and she starts to cry or laugh she falls right asleep, like snoring asleep, she had only ever had loss of muscle control before even to the point of her looking like she is nodding off a bit, but now its a full blown pass out sleep attack, brought on by cataplexy. 



#28 sandrad

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Posted 30 March 2015 - 04:35 PM

I feel like my sleep attacks are exactly that, sleep attacking me... I feel like I am drowning sometimes, in sleepiness like I am fighting it and fighting it and it just in full blown attack mode. I was having fun with my ability to microsleep the other day. I was taking a selfie right at the moment where I had my eyes closed, and was entering a micro sleep stage but I was still awake enough to be able to take the picture and KNOW I was taking the picture but I was asleep.  It was literally the difference between 1 or 2 seconds the pictures look crazy!! 



#29 slo.mo.a.go.go

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Posted 13 April 2015 - 11:56 PM

Most of the time, there is no warning for my sleep attacks. I only know after I wake up. There are times when I do start to get a little sleepy like when you have to sit in the doctor's ofice waiting for an appointment. I'll just get up and walk around. Sometimes when shopping, I'll have an attack just long enough for me to kind of jerk & wake up before I start to fall. Micro sleep for me really blows me away because I can have complete dreams (meaning the time span for whatever I dream covers hours of whatever they are about) in just seconds. And then there are the dreams that I have that are the most fun because I am actually dreaming coinciding with a program on TV and sort of applying my own take on what is happening and adjusting the characters. I tend to become verbally active, loudly, and it wakes up my husband. He then tries to wake me up and I get mad because I am having such a good time. These kind of dreams generally begin by having cataplexy so bad (most of the time from laughing) that I fall into a dream state but still aware of what is happening on the TV. Crazy, huh? Wonder if anyone else ever does that? When my children were small and they were watching TV, I would take a nap with them and I could hear eveything they said even though I was asleep. I've had all sorts of weird experiences connected to Narcolepsy/Cataplexy in my life from 13yrs to 72yrs. Getting past the Cataplexy attacks where I would stop breathing was the most important. Knowing that I would always manage to catch my breath and believing it made the difference. N/C is not fatal. You just have to make the best of it and not allow it to hold you back from anything you want to do! Yes, it will scare off people who get spooked easily but actually that's a good thing.

Lots for me to relate to in yr post here, validation for the dream state while audible sounds unaffected. I have sleep attacks where my friends become muppety creatures, like Will he is often a red felt capital T with black colored mop hair flopping as he speaks with the thin arms on wires gesturing, quite amusing but I understand dialogues during this sleep attacks.

Been quizzed enough on what I hear to know is real. Actually, this is how I passed high school & college, unable to take notes 90% of time, or do my homework, try as I might. Anyone else?


But had no idea at the time why and wish I could tell my teachers it was N not them. They certainly asked me, most of them, multiple times per semester, since 5th grade.

Which brings me to the ADHD-I issue, which I wld like to comment on but the sleepy is sinking me, quicksand style.